Mature Christians don’t lay down fleeces!
I wanted to say something in my Sunday night sermon about Gideon’s habit of laying down fleeces whenever he wanted to be sure what God wanted him to do, but ran out of time! I thought I would briefly touch on that subject here, simply because a lot of Christians lay fleeces down when they are seeking God’s will for their lives and making important choices.
You can read about Gideon’s method of finding out God’s purpose in chapter 6 of the Book of Judges at Bible Gateway here
Gideon laid a wool fleece on the ground and asked God to wet the fleece with dew but keep the ground dry overnight. This would be the confirmatory sign that Gideon was looking for. When God did as Gideon asked, Gideon requested the reverse the next night. Would God please make the ground wet but ensure that the fleece remained dry? Once more, God did as Gideon asked.
Is this an example of how Christians can legitimately discover God’s will today? Should we lay down ‘fleeces’ of all sorts, as many Christians do, in order to find out what God wants us to do, who he wants us to marry, where he wants us to study? I think not. The Bible in no place or part encourages us to look or ask for a sign. In fact, the Lord Jesus said that it was a wicked and adulterous generation that looked for a sign.
You see, the spiritual life is about faith not signs. It is about trusting God and his kindly providence. Gideon knew what God wanted. He knew that God had said ‘Am I not sending you?’ (Judges 6.14). Gideon had received enough guidance from God. He lacked faith in God. Pure and simple. He did not trust God sufficiently, and it is a remarkable testimony to God’s grace and kindness that God put up with Gideon’s spiritual timidity.
Gideon’s fleece-laying antics revealed that he did not believe God would look after his interests and protect his life, even though Gideon had no doubt that God had spoken to him. When we lay fleeces down, we show that we are reluctant to believe God’s promises to care for us and guide us. It shows that we are unwilling to trust the renewed minds and consecrated brains that God has given us. We reveal an impatience with prayer and a lack of confidence that prayer will be answered. Fleeces mean that we are unwilling to pray any further.
Paul the Apostle wrote:
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is – his good, pleasing and perfect will’ (Romans 12.1)
The next time you feel tempted to lay down a fleece, look instead to the more trustworthy means God has provided for your guidance – your mind, prayer, the counsel of your pastor, the advice of Christian friends and relations, your surrounding circumstances, the Bible. These are the sources of your guidance. Once you have engaged with all of these, make your decision and trust God to be guiding you through in his kindly providence.
No more fleeces, then!
Soli Deo Gloria
Having been thinking about what God’s will is for some time now, I must admit that I was tempted to lay a fleece of my own a few days ago. I’d never considered doing so before, having not read the ’story’ of Gideon. But, David Wilkerson in “The Cross and the Switchblade” regularly ‘layed fleeces down’ for his calling to work with the gangs of New York.
It was something really silly, my fleece, like whichever side of a book was facing upwards in the morning was what choice I was going to make. I’m sure you’ll be pleased to know that I didn’t go through with this!
Thanks for writing about ‘laying fleeces’. I’ve been wondering whether it was right to do so, and where it became testing God. And your thoughts on the ‘laying of fleeces’ has definitely taught me about this, and reminded me of those better ways to seek guidance from the Lord.
Thanks, Russell. I didn’t know that David Wilkerson had done this. God can, and I suppose does, speak to us in any way he chooses. He may well have exercised patience with David Wilkerson, as he did with Gideon. However, I think he expects us to pray and to use our sanctified minds, for the most part. Keep praying and carry on making mature decisions, and you can trust God to lead you forward. His presence in the process can be relied on. Blessings.
I can understand the point that laying down fleeces can become testing God and also it can show a lack of trust. However can it also be a valid way of asking God a question about something that your unsure about? So instead of trying to be sure of something God has definitely said to you could it be a way of finding out something where God has seemingly been silent even after much prayer and bible reading and asking other people etc.
Hi Becky, sorry to take so long to respond but I have been away from Aberdeen. Guidance seems like a hard thing sometimes and I know how it feels to be unsure, even when you have prayed, consulted, fasted, read scripture, spoken to your pastor, and done just about everything you possibly can to discern God’s will.
I still don’t think that laying down fleeces is a good practice, even when it seems that God is not saying anything to us. In effect, what we are doing when we lay down a fleece is that we are telling God exactly how we want him to speak back to us. We are insisting that God guide us in the terms we prescribe. We are saying that although God rules everything and can speak to us in an infinite number of ways, we insist that he show his will to us in exactly the way we want. This attempts to limit the ways in which he can guide us and restricts the ways in which we can hear him.
If God has clearly expressed his mind one way or another in the bible, then we are bound to obey him, of course, and to conform our lives and decisions to his revealed will without demur. If we have done all we can, though, and God still seems silent, and we can find no clear guidance in scripture or in our circumstances, then we may well be faced with a situation in which God allows us freedom to choose for ourselves in one way or another. When God appears not to have spoken, then we are free to decide, always being guided and governed by the command to love both God and neighbour.
In other words, when God seems silent, and a decision still needs to be made, then go ahead and make it, using the renewed mind that God has given you now that you belong to him, and have confidence and trust that he is working out his purposes in your life (Ro 8.28). Let your decision making be guided by love for God and for others, and step out in faith, with the baptised brain that God has given you.
When my children were younger, my wife and I made decisions for them. Now that they are young men, they make decisions for themselves, based on the values we taught them In the back of their minds, they now know what pleases Mum and Dad and don’t need to ask us about every decision they have to take. Every once in a while, they do consult us. At such times, we are always ready to advise.
God is silent when he has already spoken, in scripture for instance, or when he feels we are able to make our own minds up based on all we already know about him and his way. Decision making is often difficult precisely because we are frightened to step out. God’s apparent silence is an indication that he has already spoken, or that he trusts you to make the right choice. Fleeces are not needed. Make a decision one way or the other, to step out or not to step out, and trust God with the outcome.
Bless you,
Louis
I fully disagree, the method and private manner to which someone relates to god and his will can’t be judged by your standard. God knows our heart and can meet us at any place. “Mature” christian as a term is immature in itself…prideful. Fleeces are not for you, okay, but how silly to make a blanket statement about the wrongness of them
Claire, I offered my opinion, based on pastoral experience and personal knowledge of scripture. You want to disagree with me, and I support your right to do so, but it would be better if you did so with a greater measure of graciousness and Christian gentleness. I can’t find much of that in your comment. I encourage you to examine the tone of your comment. Christians ought to converse with kindness, even when they disagree.
It is true. God does know our heart and can meet us at any place, as you say. However, I think that you are merely arguing for the personal freedom to deal with God in whatever way you think best, whereas I have been saying that God desires us to commune with Him in ways which He has set out for us in scripture. I stand by this.
You accuse me of being ‘prideful.’ Thank you. I am grateful for the chance to examine myself. There is still pride in me. I confess it and ask God’s forgiveness. However, I do not think it is a proud thing to say that the bible in general encourages a certain way of discerning God’s will, namely the use of our sanctified minds, and that we should submit our lives to what appears to be the obvious teaching of scripture. This is a humble thing, not a prideful thing.
I suspect that you want to hold on to the practice of laying out fleeces. Carry on, if you wish. I have not said that God will not speak to you through laying down a fleece. I simply think that the Holy Spirit reveals a better way for mature believers, that of prayerful thought and sanctified reflection.
Bless you.
Louis
Hi Claire and Louis,
thank you both for your answers they are both helpful because I never would have thought of either of those views myself. It has given me something to think about.
From Becky
X X X X X
It always seemed to me that Gideon wasn’t doubting God – look how he was prepared to go it alone and upset family and establishment later.
Wasn’t he rather doubting himself? “Can I possibly be hearing correctly if God is asking me to do something which upsets family (5th commandment?) and government (powers that be ordained by God?) and religous establishment of the time (church/priesthood?)” Wasn’t he simply asking; “Am I just hearing what I want to hear because I want to destroy these idols, drive out invaders and unleach a lot of pent up anger and frustration?”
Was the fleece incident not an attempt to pin down what he thought he was hearing to something more tangible and less devious than the human mind?
It still might have been better to ask God to provide the idea as well as it’s fulfillment but that would again leave Gideon wondering if he’d just had a bout of false memory and actually received before he asked.
When the disciples were emotionally agitated and thought they’d seen a ghost Jesus deliberately ate something so they had “proof” that he was real. This might have been a better option but remember that Gideon was NOT being asked to seek a majority vote in Kirk Session before going ahead. He was being asked to go alone in conflict with all the advice about consulting older/wiser believers.
LH
I think you have to be ever so careful about laying fleeces. While some people can think it is a good way to bolster what we feel God is saying, it can be testing God.
Here is an example. While in a ‘fleece’ mode, A Fleece I put down this year was if: “Paris was more than 5C hotter than London, for 2 days or more a week during the summertime, then God was saying No”. If “London and Paris get a hot summer with similar temperatures, God is saying ‘yes’” These cities are very close by the way!!!
So here, I have gone and asked God to shift the World’s jet stream to cater for a ‘fleece’…and ensure that both Paris and London get a hot summer. Well, since that fleece came out, London has had three on the whole poor summers, and Paris has threatened to be up to 10 – yes 10C hotter – God saying ‘no’??? Probably!
So what then if the Fleece turns out to be negative? Well the answer is this, I believe. WE shouldn’t be using fleeces to guide us. That is actually not of God. We should not be using fleeces false stop. We should be trusting God in prayer and through our pastoral leadership. I mean, how many of those who have ‘fleeced’ things have asked for ‘fleeces’ that bless us; like a job offer, hot summer weather (in the UK), snow (for the kids), it to stay dry…etc?
If we do like to lay fleeces and they come out positive or negative, we should always test them through the word, through back up from a pastor or house group – with prayer and doing what God instructs us to do. This way, God remains centre, not the dabbling in fleeces.
So there you go. If you do do it, put God back in the centre, speak with Him, get a second or third opinion from another christian, pray, fast, worship!
Not really addressing the point I made though is it? Gideon was not arguing about nice weather or a good job. He was wrestling with a situation where God said “do this” and the 2nd or 3rd opinion of his family, the Jewish (or church) establishment, the effective law of the land all said “don’t”. Fleeces are not for:
1. Avoiding responsibility in decision making
2. Getting the answer that suits us
3. Allowing a short cut to prayer or discussion with other believers
That’s surely why that’s in the bible but not in dozens of times. It’s for the occasions when we know what God seems to be saying but don’t have faith in our own judgement or the option of getting a second opinion.
To the people who think fleeces are always wrong (but maybe tolerated by God), what would they suggest Gideon had as an alternative? Or are they looking with the benefit of hindsight and saying; “Gideon should just have obeyed what God was saying.” Would they have backed him? Or would they have muttered about not rocking the boat? About maintaining unity in Israel? Suggested winning over the invading armies by persuasion and prayer? Criticised Gideon for not respecting his father’s traditions?
Also you have to be careful not to put personal pride before obedience. Wasn’t Ahaz criticised by God for refusing to suggest a ’sign’ to God’s prophet? (Isaiah7:10-14) That shows that sometimes God even asks people to suggest a sign which he will use to back up his promise.
You are right, Louise. God did tell Ahaz to ask him for a sign, and Gideon did ask God for a sign, more than once, and did not receive a rebuke for his trouble, though he had already received confirmation of God’s will when the angel consumed the bread and meat by fire.
The practice of laying down fleeces was certainly one known to the people of Israel, but it is not one carried through into the life of the church. There are no instances of it in the New Testament. This does not mean that it was wrong in Old Testament times, just that God does not intend it to be part of a believer’s life now that we have scripture, as well as the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, not to mention the fellowship of the church to help guide us.
The Apostles cast lots, an OT practice, in order to discern God’s will about a replacement for Judas (Acts 1.26) but there is no other instance of this in the NT. Some of the old ways were giving way to the new, now that the Holy Spirit filled the life of every believer. I think the laying down of fleeces falls into this category.
If we listen to scripture and to the voice of the Spirit, as the Spirit speaks to us inwardly in our hearts and outwardly through the advice and counsel of others, we will be able to make decisions that are good and true.
The problem with laying down fleeces, and I have tried a few in my time, is that you end up never quite sure if the ’sign’ you received was really God, or if it was just your imagination, or just a sheer coincidence. People who lay down fleeces go on and on laying down fleeces, in my experience!
God wants us to have peace of mind when making decisions, and we can have peace of mind by listening to God in his Word and in His Spirit.
I understand what you are getting at when you say that perhaps fleeces are for those times when you have heard God, but feel the need of a little more confirmation – at least I think that is what you are saying.
I have this suggestion to make – instead of asking for a sign, maybe we should ask for God to help us hear him more easily and readily. His sign may show me what to do, but to hear His voice…I should have to draw nearer to him for that.
Which is better?
Bless you,
Louis
There is the question of Old Testament vs. New Testament but I think too much is made of this difference. People had the scriptures of the Old Testament and the advice/teaching of the priests and prophets and sometimes kings too. Many of the guidelines people look to for decision making are spelt out in the Old Testament rather than the New. There was enough advice to run an entire country not just individual lives. We have the Holy Spirit but, in your experience, does that make christians more reliable decision makers than the Jews were?
I wasn’t really talking about people needing “a little more confirmation”. A typical example would be where someone consistently feels they are being told something by God. When they attempt to discuss this with other Christians or to act on it their sanity is repeatedly questioned. Fellow believers say; “what you are saying doesn’t happen” – yet cannot produce any evidence biblical or otherwise to support this.
Doubting their own sanity they seek medical advice only to find the secular medics are convinced that 1 they are sane and 2 God has spoken to them. The wisest thing to do is to look outwith their own head/thoughts and outwith the two groups who have provided conflicting advice and both gone beyond their own areas of expertise. Logic suggests an objective sign affecting several senses will be more reliable. This is not something which leads to repeated fleece laying. Only one issue needs clarification. It’s a response to bullying, closed or complacent attitudes from the establishment. (In that case from the christian establishment though it can happen the other way round from the medical establishment too).
PS Do you believe God still occasionally volunteers a sign (like Hezekiah in 2 Kings 20:9 – 11 or like the signs Moses was given for Pharoah)?